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SEQ84-A: You know, when I got to Shanghai, uh Shanghai was an open market. Uh a lot of Chinese people and there was a lot of merchandise that was there in the warehouse uh from before the war. People would import. And uh I was...I started to be like a salesman, selling textiles and here and there; and life was very very inexpensive. For about thirty, forty dollars a month in US dollars, you could live well with food and with everything. Was very very cheap. So we managed, we lived... | [
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SEQ85-Q: Did you get involved in the Jewish community in Shanghai? | [
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SEQ86-A: No, I couldn't. I just couldn't. It was...there was a lot of work to be done. There were twenty thousand Jewish refugees, and besides the Polish Jews that came from Japan. Uh it was handled very well. They had committees organized by the Sephardic Jews, and by their own people; and they were handling it. It was rough. The representatives of Joint were there, and uh uh they did a little work. We didn't have to get homes for them. Uh, it was a lot of difficulties because in in 1943 I believe it was, the Japanese--under the pressure of the Germans--have uh...have put the Jews that came to Shanghai after 1937, put them in the ghettos, in specified areas which was terrible difficult conditions. We were not subject to that law, because we came to Shanghai before 1937. It was only those that came after 1937. They were smart. They didn't say German Jews or Polish Jews or Austrian Jews that were kicked out by the Germans or that fled from Germany and Poland as Jews. They said those that came after '37, which was understood. That was those applied to the German Jews. | [
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SEQ87-Q: Uh, I'm confused. You said that you, that when you came from Kobe it was after '41 and the war had started... | [
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SEQ88-A: Yes, I came in February of 1942. | [] | RG-50.030.0090_trs_en.jsonl | 1,242,748,856 | -1,513,359,682 | [
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SEQ89-Q: But you then just said that you were not put into the ghetto uh because you came before '37. And, of course, that's not true, but... You mean because you were in, under Japanese control before '37? | [
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SEQ90-A: No. The...the, after 1941, the Japanese took over Shanghai. | [
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SEQ91-Q: Right. | [] | RG-50.030.0090_trs_en.jsonl | -9,421,339 | -1,340,184,247 | [
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SEQ92-A: You know, Shanghai had different concessions. It had the British Concession, the French Concession. And the...and the people that had taken those concessions not, except those that were stateless people, but under the protection of the consulates. We, the stateless people, were again under the the Chinese people that were, they they were in charge of our situation. See, and we had a Jewish community which was working together with the Chinese. And uh, when the proclamations came out, it applied to the Jews that came to China after 1937. | [
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SEQ93-Q: To all of China, and that included Kobe as part of that...China under Japanese control... | [
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SEQ94-A: They came to Shanghai. They were in Shanghai. Those who came to Shanghai after '37. | [
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SEQ95-Q: So what did you do? You were outside of the ghetto. How did you live during those years? | [
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SEQ96-A: As I told you, we were doing, buying and selling and . My father, as a matter of fact, had a uh a wholesale business in textiles. And I was helping him and uh making a living. | [] | RG-50.030.0090_trs_en.jsonl | 182,976,733 | 933,933,837 | [
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SEQ97-Q: Can you describe - the two communities were very different. | [
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SEQ99-Q: In the ghetto and outside the ghetto. Can you describe, can you explain some of the differences to us? | [
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SEQ100-A: Well, the...the...the Jewish people that were put in the ghettos were confined. They had no no rights. They had to get a permit to get out of there to come and conduct their business and go to their jobs. See, we were free to move where ever we wanted to. We didn't...1n Shanghai that is. We didn't have to have any uh special permits to do that; and uh they lived in in the heims, which was the...they lived in the very best situation. They were taken care of by, money was being uh, funds were coming from America through Switzerland, through Sweden. Things were being - I don't know exactly how it was done but they were, they were in a very bad situation. Very very difficult situation. | [
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SEQ104-A: Uh, when the war ended a big market opened up. China was a big market. And uh and I got my, I established my contacts with my friends that I used to work for in Japan. The same people that I told you about--Max Pecker. And he was in New York at that time. Luckily, I sent him a telegram and he started sending merchandise to me. And I was doing very well from 1947, 1948. I was doing good business. But then the Communists started advancing, and uh we knew we had to leave. So uh the Israeli government--at that time the State of Israel was established in 1948--they sent a representative, and they they registered us. And 800 of us registered together, and they sent a ship for us and took us out. And they took us to uh, afterwards more people left. Some went to Harbin, went to Hong Kong. They sent ships after them to Hong Kong. Then they organized even planes. They had B-29's that were flying uh refugees to Israel. So uh, when we went from uh Shanghai to Israel in 1948, in December of 1948, there were 800 of us on a ship that could take only 600 or so. It was a crowded ship. It wasn't as bad as the Exodus, that we saw in the movies, but it was tough. And we had to go 54 days to travel, because the Suez Canal was closed. Uh, there was war with Egypt. We had to go to Singapore, from Singapore to South Africa, around the Cape to Italy. And in Italy we got off that ship and the Israeli government sent a ship after us and we went to Haifa. Fifty-four days it took. It was a rough journey. It was something. One day, if I ever write a book about tt, it's...it's a very unusual trip. | [
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SEQ108-A: We were coming from Singapore. It was what nine days. The weather was rough. Some of our people organized themselves in a group that was sending things on the ship because we had about uh out of eight hundred and sixty people we had about eighty or a hundred very orthodox Jews, who wouldn't eat anything. And they were just just drinking tea and...and bread; because it was not kosher you know. I mean to say, who could think about kosher on a refugee ship? So uh the committee got together and decided - there's a Jewish community in Singapore - they knew them. Sephardic Jews. Send them a telegram and uh telling we are on our way to Israel, Jewish refugees on the way to Israel, to the new State of Israel. And we have people who need kosher food. Will they be able to help us? They sent it to them. As we arrived in Singapore, I'll never forget it. I was on the deck; and uh we were not allowed, the ships were not allowed to berth because the British--it was British at that time still, you know, before Singapore became independent--and uh we had to drop anchor somewhere far away because, I don't know, to to to get some more uh whatever they needed to run the ship, oil or whatever. And uh uh I was walking on the deck; and suddenly I see a Chinese junk, a large Chinese junk, sailing toward the ship. I had the binoculars. I looked. And there was a uh darkish man with a beard and a beret, look like a Sephardic Jew. And uh old junk, Chinese junk, coming towards the ship. I said, uh, "Who are you?" He says, "I am from the Jewish community.” He says, "You need kosher food?" I said, "Yes.” I said, uh, "Good. What do you think (ph).” He says uh, there were about two hundred baskets with live chickens, live chickens. When we talk about kosher food, we thought--I don't know--sausage and cheese. I said, "Don't you have anything else?" He says, "Look, we are a small Jewish community. Climate is very hot here. We don't have sausages or cheese. There are chickens. You can have somebody to make them kosher, and then they will make soup and whatever they need.” "OK.” So we got those baskets and brought on the ship; and then our people called the representatives of the religious group - there were some rabbis among them - some people who knew how to...to...to cut the chickens. Said, "Look, we got about a few hundred chickens. Organize yourselves and get them all...cut them in the proper way. Then cook them, and that will be your food for the next couple of weeks.” "OK.” We can, what do you want now. I don't know how they organized. It was like a conveyor rail line. There was men on this side. Three of them were cutting. Then they were sending them down. And, you know, according to the Jewish law you're not allowed to scald the chickens. You had to flick them. You see, at the end, there were six women or so; and they were flicking them. And...and then the ship...at six o'clock in the evening, the ship was on its way with our next stop South Africa. And all of a sudden, all these feathers started going up in the air, into the funnel of the ship. (Laughter) Where the classy (ph) captain - was a Greek captain - he took a uh one of those megaphones, and he said, "I give you ten minutes to get that stuff cleaned up, or I'll send my people with the hose--water hoses--and everything will go overboard.” So somebody ran to him, and explained to him what it was. He said OK, I'll give you a half an hour. Within a half an hour everything was OK, and they had food. (Laughter) But then comes South Africa. South Africa was marvelous. The Jews in South Africa--the most remarkable, hospitable, fine, heart-warming, wonderful people. We sent them a telegram, also. On the way to Israel. "We have children. We have old people, this and that.”’ And about five o'clock in the morning, Capetown is a beautiful city. It's just like Honolulu with the mountains. Gorgeous. So uh, I had three children, we had three children then. Two of my youngest children - one of them was one year old, then he was one year old - and I was allowed by the captain to go to my wife's - the children were in the women's section - men were in another place. I was allowed to go and take. Because my wife was very sick on this ship - she couldn't take it. For 21 days, she couldn't lift her head. Was rough. Anyway, so I was allowed to take - for a man to go into the women's section and take the children out. And I would take the...you know, little boy out; and he had a little carriage tied up on the deck. So put him in the carriage, you know. And as I was strolling him on the deck, we arrived in Capetown. It was still dark in the morning. I said, "Well, they must be working people. You know, come to work at the docks.” They came closer. Jewish flags - hundreds of Jews - it was unbelievable. I said it's you know it's so loud. And then started - we weren't allowed to go on shore. "What do you need?" And...and from eight in the morning until six in the afternoon, until we left, there were trucks and trucks and trucks bringing stuff - toys, food, magazines, medicines, potatoes, uh canned stuff, chocolates, anything. And uh it was all taken out. It was, it was remarkable. I'll never forget it as long as I live. As a matter of fact, about eight years ago I had to on business in South Africa. And I went to the newspaper uh that covered this arrival, this ship; and there were pictures and so forth, and I told them that I was on that ship. They dug out from their files what happened uh thirty years ago, and they found it. And I said, "Look, I am not uh... Nobody has given me the authority, but please accept our thanks, from all of us I'm sure, for what you've done for us.” Lovely people. So that's...that's...that's the Coast of Victory, was the name of the ship. | [
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SEQ109-Q: Alright, Mr. Hanin. Is there anything that you want to add? Anything that you want to...any story that you want to tell that you haven't told, anything that you want to say. | [] | RG-50.030.0090_trs_en.jsonl | 821,979,810 | 994,647,612 | [
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SEQ110-A: Well, what shall I add? There are many other things that happened. Some of them were not so very pleasant that I would rather not talk about it. Because uh there were accusations that the Jewish community of Kobe stole money. Uh, it was painful because we gave our hearts, we gave our our efforts, we gave everything we had to help. But some people... You know, you always have that kind of people. | [
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SEQ111-Q: Can you tell us a little about that? | [] | RG-50.030.0090_trs_en.jsonl | -718,499,562 | -1,860,467,458 | [
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SEQ112-A: It was just rumors. They would never come and and openly tell us. I was always going and talking to them. But then when the time came for them to go to Shanghai, when we got orders that everybody has to go to Shanghai, there was always very painful, who goes first. Nobody wants to go. Everybody, someone is waiting with visas to go to South America; or, you know, they were applying for visas to go. of the world. Brazil, Argentina. And uh also the...the unpleasant thing that I found, one of the things, was that the missionaries took advantage of some of the people. They came and they spread the words; and some of the people, they promised them visas if they would convert to Christianity. Uh, and some did. Uh I saw...I saw them going to the church, and it's none of my business. People do what they want to do. Until one day, I came to the community. And there was a man with a bible in his hand, an American missionary, preaching from the bible. I said--uh, in what language he spoke, German, I think--I said, "What are you doing here?" He says, "Well, I can do what I want.” I said, "Look, you have taken advantage of people who are uh uh desperate, who need visas, who are... who are run away from a terrible war. I don't think it's the right thing to do. You want them to," I said, "come to church or whatever. They want to go, I cannot stop them. But you cannot come to our Jewish community here and...and preach the bible. I don't think it's the right way to do it.”” He agreed with me. He was a very nice man. Came to my house and we had a long talk. But then, you know, when all of them went to Shanghai, uh remarkable, remarkable people how they could adapt themselves with the Polish group. The German did also. They adapted themselves. They had newspapers. They had sports activities. They had Jewish schools. They had uh rabbinical seminaries. They had - I used to go to their lectures. They had musicians. They had theaters. They had cafes. Uh, some people suffered, but others adapted themselves. And this is one thing I will always say about... can't speak for other people but I am talking about our people. We could adapt ourselves. They find a way, and uh life went on. | [
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SEQ113-Q: Thank you. Thank you very much. | [] | RG-50.030.0090_trs_en.jsonl | 221,492,050 | -695,774,624 | [
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SEQ114-A: I'm glad I was able to share some of my experiences. | [] | RG-50.030.0090_trs_en.jsonl | -1,967,396,435 | -1,111,287,919 | [
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SEQ115-Q: Thank you. You've been very helpful. | [] | RG-50.030.0090_trs_en.jsonl | 576,455,933 | -731,770,103 | [
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